Frederica Freyberg:
In Wisconsin, any discussion about education quickly finds its way to how we pay for it. To the issue of state funding, property taxes and revenue limits. Revenue limits, or caps, are state-imposed controls over how much money a district can receive through state aid and local property taxes. Gov. Doyle this week proposed lifting those caps on districts which improve education. Our next guest says lifting the caps might sound good, but says it could end up being simply cost shifting. Ken Bates is the superintendent of the Green Lake School District, and thanks very much for being here.

Ken Bates:
My pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:
Well, why isn't lifting the caps in return for improved education good?

Ken Bates:
Right now we're going to be cost shifting. The reduction of state aid that took place, which is unprecedented. People I've talked to can't remember when state aid to schools was reduced this much. So even though you have the freedom of revenue limits lifting, you're now shifting that burden onto the local property taxpayers at a time when nobody wants to see property taxes go up. Once again, children are kind of placed in the middle. School boards are responsible for providing a quality education, but they're also responsible to their taxpayers. So even having that freedom to go beyond, which a revenue limit is, probably now isn't the best time.

Frederica Freyberg:
Except that school districts are always complaining and complaining on this program about these revenue limits and how much they squeeze their budgets and have over the years.

Ken Bates:
And we've been suffering for that. A lot of school districts have deferred their maintenance. We're one of those. We're going to be going for a revenue limit exemption for energy efficiency to replace boilers that are 50 years old. We are going to be taking advantage of that. However, we know our taxpayers are going to take a hit. And we'll hear about it. The next time we have to go out for a referendum, we could be placing ourselves in jeopardy. So I like the opportunity to have some exemptions. However, we need a full fix to the funding formula.

Frederica Freyberg:
Tell me about your school district. You say you are going to referendum in the spring.

Ken Bates:
Yes. We are looking at it for operating expenses. Under the current formula of revenue limits, having some exemptions will give you an opportunity, but just for operating, if we don't pass this operating referendum, we may not exist because it keeps multiplying. The revenue limit is based on your number of students. We're declining in students. Our costs are fixed. Wages, salaries, benefits, utilities. In fact, they go up. So in order to make that happen, you're going to need more money. And if we don't get an operating referendum, I think we'll have a hard time maintaining our district.

Frederica Freyberg:
And so it's not just about lifting the caps or exempting some of these districts. It's about getting more money, as you say, and how should that look in your mind and in the minds of the people who make up this coalition?

Ken Bates:
Well, the school finances, we've looked at a variety of things and we've come up with a comprehensive plan that reduces property taxes and targets money to specific programs that help children learn. Now, it hasn't gotten much play, and our timing probably wasn't very good. Nobody could have predicted what would happen to the economy. One of the members of our group is the Wisconsin Alliance for Excellent Schools. They've recommended raising the sales tax a penny and putting that directly to education for targeted things that help schools.

Frederica Freyberg:
How do you regard some of the reforms that the governor is talking about now, specifically as they pertain to school financing?

Ken Bates:
Well, in looking at it, some of the ideas I think — I thank the governor for recognizing that we need some freedom from the revenue limits. I think it's going to be difficult to do some of them, combining for collective bargaining reasons. I think that is going to be one that's going to be a little bit tougher to accomplish. Going together for — right now we are cooperating with other districts, going together on health care and trying to reduce some of those costs. I think those are commendable. I think it's going to be a little bit tougher when the rubber hits the road.

Frederica Freyberg:
As it always is. Ken Bates, thanks very much and good luck to you.

Ken Bates:
Thank you. Appreciate it.