Frederica Freyberg:
Another prong of the school reform that includes the governance change in Milwaukee schools is the creation of something called Milwaukee Children’s Zones, which would include educational and social services from birth through college. This idea of getting at kids young is what's behind initiatives to push early childhood education. Our next guest is an economist for the state Department of Workforce Development who believes in the long-term returns of early education. Dennis Winters, thanks very much for being here. When President Obama was speaking, his remarks tied educational outcomes with economic outcomes and not just for the success of the students themselves, but for the U.S. economy in this kind of global economy that we have. How does early childhood education factor into economic stability?  

Dennis Winters:
Well, if we look at economic stability and global competition and things like that, the race is going to be for talent. We have to raise the productivity of everything we do and the labor force is part of that. So the earlier we can get kids accustomed to training and education, things like that, the better it is. We've got all kinds of indicators that show that academic reading scores at a very early age, through third grade, eight-years old, is an indication of how they'll do academically and in other education and training.

Frederica Freyberg:
How young do you have to, quote, “get at” a child to affect this kind of positive course?

Dennis Winters:
Well, we're looking at early childhood program, but we're talking prenatal to age five. The reason we talk prenatal is because the health of the mother has a lot to do with the health of the baby when it's born and then there's all kinds of studies that show different things of ramifications for positive or negative after that. So it's a whole process. Eighty-five percent of brain development, for example, physiologically happens from birth to age three. So when all the pathways are forming and children are sponges at that point, physiologically speaking also, it's good to get input in there.

Frederica Freyberg:
And yet Wisconsin right now, we have 4K, but it's kind of voluntary for districts. I do understand that 319 out of 426 school districts in Wisconsin do take part in 4K education, but in your mind is that enough? 

Dennis Winters:
Well, I would like it to be from birth on. And when I talk about education, I'm talking about age-appropriate kind of thing. We're not going to be teaching Latin to a 2-year-old or anything like that. We're looking for age-appropriate kinds of input and stimulus and things like that. So the earlier we can go, especially for disadvantaged kids that come from disadvantaged homes, it's huge returns.        

Frederica Freyberg:
What about the price tag of this?

Dennis Winters:
Well, the price tag's an issue, but studies have shown that the return on investment are overwhelming. So anywhere from four to one to 17 to one in the Periscope Project, the preschool project, that’s kind of the granddaddy of them all. They tracked kids from 3 and 4-year-old preschool up to 40 years old. An analysis showed a return of 17 to one. That's in better education attainment, higher wages, less crime, less unemployment, better health, fewer pregnancies, the list goes on and on.

Frederica Freyberg:
Now, is there any push in Wisconsin to go to prenatal or zero to five?

Dennis Winters:
I wouldn't call it a push quite as yet. We're trying to get some of the things rolling. Right now we're doing it in steps, going with 4K in the public school systems and then try to do some programs on quality rating for child care suppliers and providers and things like that. So we're trying to get it on the radar screen and trying to show the benefits of it and how we can go forward from that.

Frederica Freyberg:
How does Wisconsin compare to other states in terms of early childhood education?

Dennis Winters:
Well, I won't say we're middle of the pack because it's kind of spotty. There are some states that are doing nothing at all. Others are quite advanced on it. For example, Georgia and Oklahoma, Minnesota's got some programs that are privately endowed to work on it. So we're trying to do what we can.

Frederica Freyberg:
How meaningful do you think, or will it not be, will the Obama administration's push toward educational reform be toward getting these kind of early childhood programs here in Wisconsin potentially off the ground?

Dennis Winters:
Well, I think it will be a help. For one thing, it's being recognized, and he's out selling it essentially, and there's money coming forward. I think he's got over $4 billion they're putting toward this. And some of that will come down hopefully in the early childhood development areas. So it's a positive thing.

Frederica Freyberg:
What do you say to critics who say it is not the government's role to kind of take care of children or perform glorified day care for kids before they're ready to go to grade school?

Dennis Winters:
Well, I would kind of agree with them. We know that the best environment for a child is two parents in the home and preferably the mother or father at home. But that's a fraction of the cases these days. Most kids have both parents working and the quality of the day care that they have to depend on is spotty. So given that, I think it's a necessary thing. The other thing we've got is that interesting fact that raising a kid in the early childhood area, it's a private investment we're making. The cost of failure for some reason for that child are public costs. So an idea might be to try to get the public a little more involved in the investment part of it in the beginning. And we've shown it will lower the cost in the end.

Frederica Freyberg:
Upfront cost versus later on.

Dennis Winters:
Right. Right.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Well, Dennis Winters, thanks very much.

Dennis Winters:
You're welcome.