Art Hackett:
First, the Zoo Interchange on Milwaukee's far west side was back in business this morning. The ramps and overpasses joining i94 and US45 have been under reconstruction for about month after a bridge showed signs of rapid deterioration. We reported on the situation six weeks ago in our series on the woes of the state's highway maintenance funds. About a week ago, one of the bridges which you see here was deemed to be near collapse from overweight trucks and was closed to all traffic. Backups ensued, but the temporary replacement was completed in a week, several months ahead of schedule. So all is back to what passes for normal. But along the way, the issue became the first big issue of the governor's race. Here joining us to talk about politics and pavement are Craig Thompson of the Wisconsin Transportation Development Association. He's with me here in Madison. And on the phone from along a highway in St. Louis we hope is Steve Hiniker of the environmental group 1,000 Friends of Wisconsin. Greetings to both of you.

Steve Hiniker:
Hi, Art.

Art Hackett:
Hi, Steve. The governor's campaign is underway and they're talking about highway funding. 

Craig Thompson:
How about that, huh? It's not the usual topic to kick off as one of the first hot button issues for a gubernatorial race. We hoped that we wouldn't have to have a situation like what occurred in southeastern Wisconsin, but I am heartened by the fact that we're talking about it, because the conversation is going to have to occur.

Art Hackett:
It's important, Steve?

Steve Hiniker:
Absolutely. We've been having a looming funding crisis for years, and I think it's finally coming to a head right now, and it's a good time for this discussion.

Art Hackett:
What are the lessons from the Zoo Interchange mess — if you want to call it that — problems, to the state and to the public?

Craig Thompson:
Well, I think one of the first lessons that everybody could see and feel in this is just how important that interchange particularly, being the busiest in the state, but our transportation system, is to just everyday life, the commerce that goes through and the people getting to where they need to get to. And when you have a disruption like that, you realize just how critical it is to both of those things.

Art Hackett:
Steve, I think a lot of the discussion has involved whether the Zoo Interchange was done in the right order with the Marquette Interchange, the highway between Chicago and Milwaukee. Is that a legitimate issue, the scheduling of these things?

Steve Hiniker:
Well, I think, you know, the scheduling, of course, is important, and we can take issues with that.
But I think more important than that is the funding question, which is: Can we afford to do all of our plans, including the Zoo Interchange, on the revenues that we're now raising? And if we can't, what is the solution? Do we build less? Or do we tax more? And that's what it really comes down to. It's either cut back on our construction and our maintenance or raise taxes, which is a hot button political issue.

Art Hackett:
That leads right into some quotes that I have gathered from the campaigns. The first comes from Joe Bader with Scott Walker's campaign, in the Journal Sentinel earlier this week. "Scott voted against raising the gas tax. He's always been for fully funding the transportation fund." Phil from
Tom Barrett's campaign speaking on the gas tax increase and tolls, quote, "He has ruled them out." And Mark Neumann's campaign said that the problem is we've got to "Stop the raids." on the transportation formula. And that means the transferring money from transportation projects to various other things the state needs money for. What do those three statements tell you about the awareness level of the candidates?

Craig Thompson:
Well, I'm not sure it's so much the awareness level necessarily, but I think it is just sort of a truism right now that as voters, we've sent messages to our elected officials that if you stick your nose out to raise new revenue, we tend to punish you for it. We've got very cautious politicians out there right now. I think there's elements of truth to what all of them said. We do have to make sure the public has confidence that the transportation user fees are going to go to transportation as a first step before the public is probably going to be willing to talk about putting in more for transportation options. There are options that I know Walker and Neumann has put out, and Barrett has talked about other options. But right now in Wisconsin that is really the workhorse that funds a great majority of our transportation projects. So if we're not going to look at that, it's going to take a while for other options to come on or you'd have to increase things like the registration fee.

Art Hackett:
Steve, you want to react to those quotes?

Steve Hiniker:
Sure. I think it's a collision of two political realities. One is: Good roads make good politics. The other is: No taxes make good politics. But the two aren't compatible right now. The transportation fund is looked at as something that actually funds the construction of our highways. Property taxes are a huge part of what funds the highway maintenance in the state of Wisconsin. So if there's ruling out of gas tax increases or tolling the roads, then the reality is property taxes are going to go up if we're going to continue to build at the same level that we're planning on. It's time I think to step back, take a look at what we can afford and what we would like to build and put the two together in an equation. I think it's a bad time to just go out there with rhetoric, which is simply going to be broken after the election, absolutely no new taxes anywhere anytime when in fact the roads will crumble if we don't do something a little bit differently. And that differently may be scaling back things, but we can't continue on the same course that we're doing right now.

Art Hackett:
Last quick question, answer from each of you. The candidates are trying to balance the highway funding with the money that's possibly going to be spent on high-speed rail. Are those two interchangeable, or are those two separate things?

Craig Thompson:
They are separate. The federal money we receive for high-speed rail, if we chose not to use it for that, we simply wouldn't get that money. It would go to another state. It's not transferable.

Art Hackett:
Steve Hiniker?

Steve Hiniker:
I agree totally with Craig. It's like comparing library money and road money. They're two entirely different pots of money. They both happen to be forms of transportation.

Art Hackett:
Steve Hiniker, Craig Thompson, thanks for joining us. Steve, have a safe trip back to Madison.

Steve Hiniker:
Thanks very much.