Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin is among 29 states with open carry laws and one of only two states that bar concealed handguns. This week we talk with both sides in this gun debate. First, the Wisconsin pro gun movement. It favors attorney general J.B. Van Hollen's ruling. The head of that group, Jim Fendry, is in Milwaukee. Thanks very much for joining us. What is your reaction to the attorney general's memo?

 

Jim Fendry:

Well, I'm not surprised at all. That's always been the law ever since Wisconsin was a state. We've never had a prohibition on the open carry of guns. What the attorney general did was to send a message, however, to prosecutors and to law enforcement officers that the mere fact that a person has a gun in plain view unto itself does not constitute an act of disorderly conduct. There has to be some supporting behavior before a person can so be charged.

 

Frederica Freyberg:

What then is your reaction to the chief of police in Milwaukee saying that they will, quote, take down anyone they see on the streets with openly carrying a gun?

 

Jim Fendry:

Well, I've been doing this work, directing the pro gun movement for 30 years, but my first career was that of a police officer. And any police officer that's called to a call or he gets a hitch of a man with a gun, he has no idea what it will actually be, but it's a very frightening situation. And the officer's first job is to take care of his own life and then after that make sure other people aren't hurt. So when an officer encounters a person with a gun, he has to make a decision. Does that person seem dangerous or does it seem somewhat benign? But he absolutely has to get control of the situation and certainly see that this individual couldn't use the gun against him or against somebody else. As we see nowadays in a lot of the dashboard cams, things can start out with smiles and nice words and go sour in a second or two.

 

Frederica Freyberg:

So you don’t construe what the chief of police in Milwaukee has said about that in reaction to Attorney General Van Hollen’s memo as in opposition necessarily to the guidance given by the attorney general?

 

Jim Fendry:

Not at all. The officers have to make a decision on the street upon each incident they come to. If they came across let's say an elderly man in his late 70s that had a gun in plain view while he was walking a dog, they'd probably realize they're not in danger, nor is anybody else. If they came across a young man in the early 20s with one bad attitude they wouldn't know what to expect and they better get control of the situation. It has nothing to do with gun rights. It has to do with protecting the officers and protecting the citizenry.

 

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your reaction to calls now from legislators in Milwaukee saying that they would like to get rid of, put a ban on this legalized open carry in Wisconsin?  

 

Jim Fendry:

Well, it's a knee-jerk reaction before anything has happened and couldn't pass constitutional muster. Wisconsin has an amendment that was passed to our constitution which is much stronger than the federal second amendment. And clearly we have a right to keep and to bear arms for hunting, security, self-defense or any other lawful purpose. Telling people they can't have a gun in plain view wouldn't make it.

 

Frederica Freyberg:

What about Jim Doyle's suggestion that perhaps it should be up to individual communities to decide their own ordinances on this matter?

 

Jim Fendry:

Well, then we'd go back to a situation where every time you crossed a border, you'd have different laws. And the opponents of gun ownership, and there are some out there, would have different laws all over the state. Every time you went across one border, from Milwaukee to Wauwatosa into New Berlin, into Brookfield, you'd be facing different laws. That's why the legislature created the firearm uniformity act, so citizens who obey the laws would have one set of laws to follow, those that they know those are the state laws. Plus we also have another danger. Before preemption we had a situation where some of the anti-gun municipalities passed ridiculous gun control laws.

 

Frederica Freyberg:

Jim Fendry, we need to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us.

 

Jim Fendry:

Thank you for the invitation.